LP: Can we really put the behavioral advertising genie back in the bottle now that it has become so pervasive, so key to the Big Tech business model?

MS: Absolutely. A business model can be changed. Most people are opposed to behavioral advertising, and that has bipartisan support. Senator Josh Hawley [R-MO], for example, offered the Do Not Track Act, which centered on data collected for behavioral advertising.

There’s also bipartisan support for anti-trust legislation to rein in these data-opolies. The House did a great report about the risks that these data-opolies pose to our economy and democracy, and there were several bipartisan bills on updating our antitrust laws for the digital economy. All the bills had bipartisan support and went through the committee. Unfortunately, they’re still being held up for a floor vote. There was even a recent John Oliver show about two of the proposed bills, and the legislation still hasn’t gotten through. This is the fault of Republican and Democratic leadership, including Schumer and Pelosi. Big Tech has spent millions of dollars lobbying against these measures and they’ve come up with these bogus commercials and bogus claims about how this legislation is going to harm our privacy.

In Europe, they’re getting this legislation through without these problems, but in the U.S., you’ve also got the Supreme Court and many lower courts chipping away at the right to privacy and the ability of the agencies to regulate in this area. The agencies can move faster than Congress in implementing privacy protections. But the status quo benefits these powerful companies because when there’s a legal void, these companies will exploit it to maximize profits at our expense.

Behavioral advertising is not about giving us more relevant ads. The data is not being used solely to profile us or predict our behavior. It’s being used to manipulate. That is what the Facebook Files [an investigative series from the Wall Street Journal based on leaked documents] brought to the fore. Facebook already tells advertisers how it can target individuals who have just had a recent breakup, for example, with advertising for certain products. They can maximize advertising profits by not just predicting what people might want but by manipulating them into emotional states in which they are more likely to make certain purchases. The Facebook Files showed that Facebook’s targeting actually causes teenage girls to develop eating disorders. It’s depressing when you think about it.

LP: People are increasingly thinking about how to protect themselves as individuals. What steps might be effective?

MS: There are some small steps. You can support a search engine that doesn’t track you, like DuckDuckGo. Cancel Amazon Prime. Avoid Facebook. But avoiding the surveillance economy is nearly impossible. If you don’t want to be tracked, don’t bring your phone with you. Of course, Carpenter v. United States is instructive on that point. The Court noted how “nearly three-quarters of smartphone users report being within five feet of their phones most of the time, with 12% admitting that they even use their phones in the shower.” Some people even bring them into the shower! It’s not realistic to force people to forgo their phones if they want their privacy. Realistically there are very few protections, and it’s very, very hard to opt out because even seemingly benign bits of information that you wouldn’t think would incriminate you can be very telling when they are combined with other data.

New York did a study about how much health information is being transmitted every day to Facebook, and it’s staggering. Facebook receives approximately one billion events per day from health apps alone on users, such as when someone opened the app, clicked, swiped, or viewed certain pages, and placed items into a checkout. All of these health-related apps are continually sending the data to Facebook, most likely without the individual’s knowledge. So, you might think you’re going to avoid Facebook, but if you’re on a popular app or using a smartwatch, it may very likely be sending detailed, highly sensitive information about you – including when you are menstruating or wanting to get pregnant – to Facebook and the other data-opolies.

We’re moving into a situation where our every movement can be tracked. Just look at China. We don’t have to imagine what the counterfactual is: China is actively investing in the surveillance of its citizens. There it’s mostly the government. Here in the U.S., you could say, well, the government is not doing that. But here the government doesn’t have to. These powerful firms are already doing it, and some of the government agencies are complicit in that surveillance economy.

LP: So we’re really not as different from China as we might like to think.

MS: Right. The companies that are surveilling us are largely unaccountable. Google and Facebook have committed numerous privacy violations. As the technology improves, the invasiveness will get even creepier. You’re going to have technologies that read a person’s thoughts and decipher their emotions — and not even just decipher their emotions but predict and manipulate their emotions. To see what’s on the horizon, just look at the influx of patented technology. It’s scary.

After the initial reaction to the Supreme Court’s recent decisions has subsided, we need to consider the broader implications of these rulings. Hopefully, people will, even if they don’t agree philosophically or ideologically with the dissenting justices, be concerned with what the majority is doing. Will the Court make other personal decisions about myself and my family? What is to stop some states and this Court from deciding whom I can marry? What birth control can I use if any? To what extent are my rights, including the right to be left alone, protected? We’re seeing a steady erosion happening now. History teaches us that anything is possible. Germany was said to be the land of poets and thinkers – a nation that would never, ever accede to something like the Nazi Party. Totalitarianism was supposed to be beyond the realm of possibility.

Privacy legislation seems unlikely right now, and things are looking bad on so many levels. The economy has tanked. Inflation is eating away at our paychecks and savings. Gun violence. Global warming. Greater mistrust across political lines. Greater tribalism and rancor. No wonder most Americans believe that the country is heading in the wrong direction. It seems like we’re incapable of building or achieving anything. One wonders whether we are approaching the decline of civilization. But the thing about human events is that you could have remarkable change coming from unexpected places. Consider the Berlin Wall. It was for decades a fact of life: people thought their children and grandchildren would have to live in a city and country divided by this physical and ideological wall. Then all of a sudden, the wall was gone. It wasn’t the politicians that negotiated this to happen. It was the thousands of Germans who had enough of the Stasi, the surveillance state, and the repression of their freedoms. Meaningful privacy change requires people to say, I’m not going to tolerate what these companies are doing. I’m not going to tolerate the government engaging in surveillance.

I don’t want to seem defeatist. Just look at the California Consumer Privacy Act of 2018 and California Privacy Rights Act of 2020. There, a real estate developer spearheaded a revolution in privacy legislation. California was the last place one would expect this to occur — the home of Google, Apple, and Facebook. But the developer spearheaded privacy reform by threatening a ballot. And when that 2018 legislation proved to be insufficient, that same real estate developer was able to get a ballot for amending and strengthening the law, and the majority of the Californians voted in favor of it. The 2020 statute is complex, over 50 pages long. There was a lot of lobbying by Big Tech against it, but the people got it.

We don’t have to accept the status quo. We can change things in small part through our behavior. If you don’t like Google, then don’t use it. If you switch to DuckDuckGo, it’s not going to be that great at first, but as more people switch to it, it’s going to get better through network effects. If you don’t like Facebook, then delete your account – but recognize that it’s not sufficient. You’ve still got to support privacy legislation. Congress can get it done. They were able to pass other legislation, like requiring federal judges to disclose conflicts, rather quickly. There’s no reason they shouldn’t be able to do this except for the lobbying and all the money that’s being thrown around. If the people push it, it can be done.

People can have an awakening that things are not all right. Young people could have an awakening about just how precarious our rights are and not take them for granted. Maybe they will see that our democracy is on not on cruise control and it’s not just operating on its own. It takes everybody getting involved on a local level and saying, I’m not going to take this any longer. Change can occur, but only if we demand it.